Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/13/1996 08:10 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 447 - PROTECT ACCESS FOR TRADIT'NL OUTDOOR USES Number 1514 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN called on Jeff Logan to advise the committee of the status of HB 447, which had been in subcommittee. JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joe Green, stated that the subcommittee on HB 447, chaired by Representative Ogan, had produced a committee substitute. On February 16, 1996, the House Resources Committee met again and heard additional testimony, but there was no quorum present. At that time, Representative Ogan presented the committee substitute, version G. MR. LOGAN discussed changes in that committee substitute. First, there was a new title reflected in the bill. In Section 1, the CS added intent language to assure that nothing in the bill affected private property interests. In Section 3, the CS provided for reasonable alternatives for access when conflicts arose and added new means of access for any new activities covered in the bill. In Section 4, the CS established authority for development interests to control access across leased areas when reasonable alternatives were not available to go around them. Mr. Logan noted that versionG had not yet been adopted by the committee. Number 1655 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN moved to adopt CSHB 447, version G, dated 2/12/96. There being no objection, it was adopted as the work draft. REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK, sponsor of HB 447, testified that she had no problem with the manner in which the subcommittee had amended the bill. She stated there was an additional amendment that she supported, Representative Long's suggestion to change "recreational" to "outdoor". REPRESENTATIVE LONG indicated that change was to be made throughout the bill. Number 1760 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was an objection to changing "recreational" to "outdoor". There being no objection, it was so ordered. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES referred to page 2, line 32, and questioned whether making that line read "outdoor restrictions" was appropriate. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Representative Long whether he wanted that change throughout the bill. REPRESENTATIVE LONG clarified the change should occur wherever it said "traditional recreational activities". That should be changed to "traditional outdoor activities". He suggested that would preclude page 2, line 32, from being altered. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were further questions or comments and noted that the amendment had been adopted. Number 1857 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to the first hearing on the bill, in early February, when there had been concern about Title 41 lands. He asked if that would be addressed in the bill. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said it was not addressed in the bill, nor was there an intention to do so. She restated that she concurred with all the changes in the committee substitute. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved that CSHB 447, version G, as amended, move from the House Resources Committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked if there would be public testimony. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted that nobody was signed up to testify. He further noted that Representative Barnes had joined the meeting. Number 1954 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT objected for the purpose of hearing from the Department of Natural Resources about the fiscal note. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if anyone was present from the Department of Natural Resources to address the fiscal note. Number 2001 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES moved that HB 447 be moved from committee with a zero fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN withdrew his motion to move the bill with the attached fiscal note. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN acknowledged a request from Sara Hannan to testify on the bill. Number 2070 SARA HANNAN, Executive Director, Alaska Environmental Lobby, testified that HB 447 transferred authorities that had been available for all state agencies through a process called interagency land management agreements (ILMAs), a Title 37 provision that allowed transfer of authorities between divisions. "Typically, those authority transfers average 97.5 acres each," she said. "Since 1970, 95 ILMAs have occurred, transferring a total of 9,258 acres between agencies. In 86 of these transfers, there has been absolutely no closure, no restrictions of access provisions in those transfers. In eight of the nine other transfers, there were restrictions such as no motorized access in the campground. Most of these transfers of lands are to accommodate a changing purpose, a trailhead, a campground, an airport extension or an airport provision protection that's no longer needed, so the Department of Public Safety, the Department of Transportation no longer wants control over the area outside of the airstrip and they're willing to give that authority back to another division." Number 2158 MS. HANNAN continued, "In one of those transfers, the Blair Lake transfer that occurred in 1995, there was a closure. And the transfer of land [indisc.] authority to regulate Blair Lake to the Division of Parks. There was a closure. Blair Lake has been closed to airplane traffic. Blair Lake is adjacent to Denali State Park. Just near Blair Lake, Princess Cruises is constructing what will become the largest commercial operation in a state park in the state of Alaska. At their request, Blair Lake was closed to airplane access. Now, much like Representative Masek, my constituents are not happy that Blair Lake is closed to access. But the purpose for closing Blair Lake to airplane access was at the request of the commercial operator who is making a multi- million-dollar investment in an in-holding in a state park." MS. HANNAN continued, "An extensive public review process goes into place before state park plans come into place and are approved. This accommodation of a commercial user doesn't please other commercial users; it doesn't please many people who thought that access was guaranteed. But I would indulge you to think about the fact that sometimes there are closures that are there not for the purpose of keeping people out, but providing for commercial development." MS. HANNAN continued, "Most of the closures to access that are accomplished are for public safety protections. We keep airport perimeters, even though it's public multiple-use land; we don't allow snow machines to cross the airport approach, for the safety of the airplane, for the safety of the snow-machiner." Ms. Hannan expressed that the changes to titles under the HB 447 were misdirected, irrelevant, and did not accomplish the desired end. "You heard a lot of testimony from snow-machiners, saying the state parks prevent us from snow-machining where we'd like to recreate," she said. "The titles that this bill affects don't affect the authority that a state park uses to close snow-machine access. I'd also like you to realize that most of Alaska and most state parks are not closed to snow-machines. A few valleys within Chugach State Park, which is the largest state park in Alaska, are closed to snow-machines, but all of the public lands along the Parks Highway and the Glenn Highway are open to snow-machines." Number 2350 MS. HANNAN concluded, "Any time you close lands to access, Alaskans are concerned. And those decisions should be made through a lengthy, public, deliberate process. And I would say that the legislature is not going to have the time to indulge in those kind of closure decisions, that this bill requests that the legislature do directly, instead of its agencies. I'd urge you not to pass [HB] 447 from committee because I don't think that it does anything except for put a large work pile on your desk that you'll never be able to get to." CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN thanked Ms. Hannan and noted that public testimony was closed. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS referred to page 2, line 26, which had been amended to read "traditional outdoor activities means those types of activities that people may utilize for sport, exercise, subsistence". He asked if they were trying to define subsistence. [END OF TAPE] TAPE 96-33, SIDE A Number 0021 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN indicated they were waiting to hear from Nico Bus from the Department of Natural Resources regarding the fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he would be happy to move the bill from committee with a zero fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT indicated a number of bills had come before the House on the floor with zero fiscal notes for promulgating regulations. He suggested in the current case, there had been a weak analysis of the expense associated with the bill. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said he agreed and that fiscal notes were certainly subject to question. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT concurred with moving the bill with a zero fiscal note and pointed out the bill would go to the House Finance Committee. Number 0198 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said that without having heard from the Department of Natural Resources, he objected to changing the fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE BARNES replied, "It is the responsibility of the departments to be here and speak to their fiscal notes." She recalled an occasion in the House Finance Committee when a department had submitted a zero fiscal note that should have been for $14 million. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted there was a motion to move the bill with a zero fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES still objected. He emphasized that Mr. Bus was on his way to testify and that it was just a matter of completing a phone call. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN indicated they had waited long enough and asked for a roll call vote. Voting to move the bill with a zero fiscal note were Representatives Austerman, Barnes, Kott, Ogan, Williams and Green. Voting against it were Representatives Davies and Long. Representative Nicholia, present via teleconference, did not vote. Therefore, CSHB 447(RES), as amended, moved from the House Resources Committee with individual recommendations and a zero fiscal note. Number 0322 The teleconference operator announced that Nico Bus was on-line. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN explained to Mr. Bus that concern had been raised that the bill might not require the amount of money shown in the fiscal note. He asked Mr. Bus to submit a justification and informed him that HB 447 bill had been moved from committee with a zero fiscal note. NICO BUS, Acting Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources, agreed to provide the requested back-up.
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